Comments on: Plagiarism http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/ teaching in an e-world Fri, 20 Feb 2009 10:16:50 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: charlie http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/comment-page-1/#comment-1743 charlie Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:27:33 +0000 http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/#comment-1743 Well, we seem to be talking back and forth on two sites :-) I do believe that <a href="http://kairosnews.org/issues-raised-by-use-of-turnitin-plagiar#comment-4909" rel="nofollow">Matt's comment over on Knews</a> describes the best way to use it assuming one wants to. I'm just very ideologically opposed for many other reasons. The CCCC IP Caucus will have a statement coming out soon (hopefully in the next couple of weeks) that goes through in detail many of my objections. As you would probably guess, the document written for GVSU is more reserved given the audience and purpose. I'll post on Knews about the CCCC IP statement once it's on the web in case you want to read it. Well, we seem to be talking back and forth on two sites :-)

I do believe that Matt’s comment over on Knews describes the best way to use it assuming one wants to. I’m just very ideologically opposed for many other reasons. The CCCC IP Caucus will have a statement coming out soon (hopefully in the next couple of weeks) that goes through in detail many of my objections.
As you would probably guess, the document written for GVSU is more reserved given the audience and purpose.

I’ll post on Knews about the CCCC IP statement once it’s on the web in case you want to read it.

]]> By: sean http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/comment-page-1/#comment-1733 sean Thu, 07 Sep 2006 02:51:03 +0000 http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/#comment-1733 I think the thesis is a place where students are really out on their own. I meet with them 2 times to discuss how to approach the writing and to help them understand the parameters, but my hope is that we’ve helped teach this kind of professional writing in the coursework leading up to the thesis. I give a lot of feedback using the reviewing tools in Word, but it’s more difficult to “teach” in a thesis class than it is a regular master’s level course. TurnItIn is probably not a good “teaching” tool, so I’d agree with you there. Instead of teaching tool, i really meant to say it was a nice “teacher tool” or "management tool" might even be better because it’s a tool that I can use to catch plagiarism — I have 1 student who did it in the example I provided and he copied from sources that weren’t refereed journals, so I probably wouldnt’ have caught it without Turnitin. and, i had two other students who had minor instances caught (a few sentences in one paragraph — sans a changed word here and there to try and trick turnitin), which allowed me to provide more guided instruction on how I would have written what they copied and to explain paraphrasing and why it’s important to get to the original source instead of relying on what someone else wrote about a study in their own review of the literature. In this sense, I was using Turnitin as a tool to help illustrate my point. I didn’t allow my students to submit drafts into the service; they merely submitted their final chapter when they were ready for me to read it and give my feedback, so they couldn’t test things out. I ended up not using it past chapter 1 because I felt dirty using the service. You want to trust your students, but you also want to recognize that a thesis gets published and I’d hate to have my advising name on a file that gets published that has been plagiarized. If I had come across a paper that caused me to suspect plagiarism, then I would have secretly submitted it into turnitin myself just to see, but it didn't come up after chapter 1. Perhaps because I used it and let everyone know that I caught someone right off of the bat??? I don't know for sure. I’ll have to look up your position to better understand your position. I think the thesis is a place where students are really out on their own. I meet with them 2 times to discuss how to approach the writing and to help them understand the parameters, but my hope is that we’ve helped teach this kind of professional writing in the coursework leading up to the thesis. I give a lot of feedback using the reviewing tools in Word, but it’s more difficult to “teach” in a thesis class than it is a regular master’s level course. TurnItIn is probably not a good “teaching” tool, so I’d agree with you there. Instead of teaching tool, i really meant to say it was a nice “teacher tool” or “management tool” might even be better because it’s a tool that I can use to catch plagiarism — I have 1 student who did it in the example I provided and he copied from sources that weren’t refereed journals, so I probably wouldnt’ have caught it without Turnitin. and, i had two other students who had minor instances caught (a few sentences in one paragraph — sans a changed word here and there to try and trick turnitin), which allowed me to provide more guided instruction on how I would have written what they copied and to explain paraphrasing and why it’s important to get to the original source instead of relying on what someone else wrote about a study in their own review of the literature. In this sense, I was using Turnitin as a tool to help illustrate my point. I didn’t allow my students to submit drafts into the service; they merely submitted their final chapter when they were ready for me to read it and give my feedback, so they couldn’t test things out.
I ended up not using it past chapter 1 because I felt dirty using the service. You want to trust your students, but you also want to recognize that a thesis gets published and I’d hate to have my advising name on a file that gets published that has been plagiarized. If I had come across a paper that caused me to suspect plagiarism, then I would have secretly submitted it into turnitin myself just to see, but it didn’t come up after chapter 1. Perhaps because I used it and let everyone know that I caught someone right off of the bat??? I don’t know for sure.
I’ll have to look up your position to better understand your position.

]]> By: Charlie http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/comment-page-1/#comment-1732 Charlie Thu, 07 Sep 2006 02:14:52 +0000 http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/#comment-1732 I'm betting you might have seen the position statement I co-authored by now. I'll have to differ with you, Sean :-) Turnitin "may" be an okay tool for catching plagiarism (I'm not convinced of that), but I wouldn't say that it "is outstanding from a teaching perspective." Turnitin doesn't teach students how to paraphrase and cite appopriately; it only catches them when they don't. It also allows teachers to avoid helping students who have problems and teaching good research skills in favor of merely labeling a student a plagiarist. If Turnitin were always being used for teaching, students would all be submitting to it prior to turning in a final draft so that they could fix any potential problems. I doubt that is usually the case. I’m betting you might have seen the position statement I co-authored by now. I’ll have to differ with you, Sean :-)

Turnitin “may” be an okay tool for catching plagiarism (I’m not convinced of that), but I wouldn’t say that it “is outstanding from a teaching perspective.” Turnitin doesn’t teach students how to paraphrase and cite appopriately; it only catches them when they don’t. It also allows teachers to avoid helping students who have problems and teaching good research skills in favor of merely labeling a student a plagiarist. If Turnitin were always being used for teaching, students would all be submitting to it prior to turning in a final draft so that they could fix any potential problems. I doubt that is usually the case.

]]> By: Melissa http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/comment-page-1/#comment-886 Melissa Sun, 18 Jun 2006 18:57:13 +0000 http://atticmooses.com/blog/2006/05/19/79/#comment-886 I think that its sad that even masters students are plagiarizing content in their thesis. I would have hoped that by that level in a person's education he or she would understand how bad it is to steal other people's thoughts. Not only is it stealing, but it really isn't helping the student learn anything. Turnitin sounds like a great way to catch students who are plagiarizing the content of their papers and assignments. Hopefully if students realize that they will get caught, they will think a little harder before they steal content from other papers. I think that its sad that even masters students are plagiarizing content in their thesis. I would have hoped that by that level in a person’s education he or she would understand how bad it is to steal other people’s thoughts. Not only is it stealing, but it really isn’t helping the student learn anything. Turnitin sounds like a great way to catch students who are plagiarizing the content of their papers and assignments. Hopefully if students realize that they will get caught, they will think a little harder before they steal content from other papers.

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